Look also at the I Ching. What would have made this work attractive? How would it have reinforced Confucian teaching?
Tuesday, May 29, 2012
Confucian Poetry (This will be done In class Wednesday)
Look also at the I Ching. What would have made this work attractive? How would it have reinforced Confucian teaching?
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I see the poetry as parallels of the parables. They seem to have a simple core message on how to live life through a simple story of another person's life. However, they are disimilar to the parables, because all they teach are life lessons. The parables would sometimes give you a lesson about God's relationship with you.
ReplyDeleteAs for the I Ching, the main item of attraction is that it gives a system of rules for various levels of society and how to live in the post. If you follow it specifically, then you will end up with success and happiness. It also showed that each person has its place and the good of the civilization requires you to follow the rules of your station. This greatly strengthens Confucianism, which is first and foremost, a system of philosophical bureaucracy. A bureaucracy needs each person to be at their station or the whole thing falls apart.
In reading some of the Confucian poems, I see some similarity to an appreciation of beauty and serenity. I also see a few similarities between these select poems and the Song of Songs book from the Bible. Both contain evidence of romantic feelings (SEEING Li Bai IN A DREAM II is one example). With other Confucian poems, they seek to provide comfort, and to answer some questions on aspects of life, just like most of the books in the Bible. Both Confucian poems and Bible verses tend to provide a subtle or indirect answer to most questions posed, and when the answers are direct, they are usually quick and to the point.
ReplyDeleteThe I Ching from what I see is a series of poems in the form of hexagrams and lines either divided or undivided. This can give a clear enough understanding to how problems can be solved, and how unity can be gained. It can also show what may cause dissaray, and can give understanding of how to prevent negative things from happening.
ReplyDeleteAnother appealing aspect- it can be understandable and appealing in that these poems give certain scenarios to reinforce the idea. One can establish various correlations from these scenarios and can understand and accept these poems a lot better through appeals such as these.
The Confucian poems remind me of the book of Proverbs. Proverb means wisdom and it is that wisdom that can help people grow. The teachings of Confucius are esentually words of wisdom written in poetry form for the use of all people. This peotry was their way of learning. Epecially with the poem about the woman: Five-character-ancient-verse Du Fu
ReplyDeleteALONE IN HER BEAUTY
It sounds like the women in Proverbs, particularly 31, who should loved and adorned. The women who is respected both in mind and body. Women seem to be held at/on a pedistol. However, when war or conflicts comes to this place women are disregarded in the hopes of finding a new love, which is in complete contradiction to proverbs 31.
The story of the five sons who talked about the people straying away from the teaching of there forefathers reminds me alot of the Isrealites. These people doubted the LORD and bad things happen, they would repent and order would be restored. The problem that the five sons incountered though would be how to get back to the teachings of Confucius when they forgot the teachings of there forefathers.
This would reinforce teachings by letting the people that it is not ok to stop teaching the way of their ancestors. That they must keep learning and growing in the way of Confucius.
It seems to me that although there are some similarities between this poetry and that which is presented in the Bible, a major difference is that the Psalms are mostly in prayer form as opposed to the more proverbial structure of Confucian poems.Similarities seem to be the general lesson and/or description provided in either which can be considered a shared educational function, but the point of view from the writer is still a different mindset.
ReplyDeleteMuch as the book of Proverbs reinforces the teachings of biblical scripture, the cofucian poems do likewise for his teachings.Most Psalms (said to be written by David), are praises and pleadings to and from God (one God), whereas the Confucian poems may contain teachings as well as praises (but to a variety of rulers).
Regarding the I Ching, it appears to be in a structure that involves some thought process to interpret much as some versions of Christian scripture is presented in a sort of "riddle" form. I think maybe the I Ching can be used as "high-lights" of the teachings of Confucious.
Sorry, lost my sign-in info ~ Eric
I think the poems here are similar to those in the bible because they are a form of scripture which can be very useful to some, and misinterpreted by others. Poetry is a form of writing that comes easily to some and offers an insightful way of reflecting on their thoughts; while for others it is almost unintelligible. In my opinion, the function of poetry is just this, it offers a new way of seeing and thinking about an issue; it can be a helpful resource when thinking about religion, but it is by no means a required one.
ReplyDeleteI see similarities between this poetry and the poetry in the Christian Bible (other than I find them both somewhat hard to interpret, haha). Both talk about love at times, although in what context I'm not entirely sure. One of my favorite books of the Catholic Bible is Song of Songs, which uses poetry about love to describe the love of God for humanity. Here though I think that the love poetry is more focused on displaying the idea of how to find an appropriate spouse and the qualities that should be looked for in such a partner. I also noticed poetry about other things, such as objects (like trees) that showed how the course of ones life progress.
I think that an important concept in this form of poetry is repetition, because in almost every poem I read at least some part was repeated in each stanza, sometimes only a word or two was changed in each stanza. This is definitely one way in which to instill the meaning of the poem, and also to show how it applies to the principle of progression through time.
I think that part of the attractiveness of the 1 Ching is that fact that it is so diverse!
I will admit to not being very familiar with biblical poetry, but I do remember a part saying "be fruitful and multiply." It was that line that popped into my head when I read the following poem:
ReplyDelete"6. 桃夭 TAO YAO
桃之夭夭、灼灼其華。
之子于歸、宜其家室。
桃之夭夭、有蕡其實。
之子于歸、宜其室家。
桃之夭夭、其葉蓁蓁。
之子于歸、宜其家人。
The peach tree is young and elegant ;
Brilliant are its flowers .
This young lady is going to her future home ,
And will order well her chamber and house .
The peach tree is young and elegant ;
Abundant will be its fruits .
This young lady is going to her future home ,
And will order well her chamber and house .
The peach tree is young and elegant ;
Luxuriant are its leaves .
This young lady is going to her future home ,
And will order well her family ."
Of course this being a Confucian poem, it talks about the order of the house and order of the family, but for whatever reason it made me think of "be fruitful and multiply" as well.
~I Ching~
I only looked at the first hexagram, but I would think this sort of "thing"(literature) would be quite helpful,to help illustrate the role fo followers(king)/people. Seeing how this relationship was one of the principles of Confucian teaching I think it would reinforce it quite well.
-John Vogel
#6 Tao Yao
DeleteJohn here we go again on the same piece of literature.
First off, I was fascinated by the very beauty of the Chinese characters when they repeat. Yes, the English words repeat, but their length causes them to look less elegant on the page.
The poem itself makes one think of the Taoists and their complexion prescriptions, but nevertheless, the peach blossom imagery is really reminiscent of the beautiful skin of a young maid getting her new home ready.
In the Song of Songs we have in 5:2 a romantic garden and in 2:3 a beautiful apple tree. Both sre references for me of this beautiful woman.
Although it is the father thinking it, this piece reminds me of the song in "Mary Poppins", and his wish for a well ordered Victorian household.
"Lin Zhi Zhi" talks about the "noble sons" of their prince. This reinforces their respect for royalty. "Ru Fen" also reinforces the Confucian teaching because it says that they know the lord is not seen, he has not turned away from the speaker. I feel that these poems are similar to the poems in the Bible. Both function to reinforce the ideals of their religion by providing a deeper understanding and appreciation for them.
ReplyDeleteThe I Ching describes six binary lines which represent decisions. Each line has four possible values. Many different hexagrams can be formed. I think that this can be attractive because there are many possibilities. It appears to be very complex, which can convince people that is is therefore correct.
#304 Chang Fa
ReplyDeleteHere I can see beautiful creation poems as we see in Genesis 1&2. Or are we dealing with a flood poem as with Noah? Nevertheless we see how this ruler established himself through Confucian morality, and by showing it to his people was a success.
“He followed his rules of conduct without error;
Wherever he inspected [the people], they responded [to his instructions].”
“So did he receive the blessing of Heaven.
He was neither violent nor remiss,
Neither hard nor soft.
Gently he spread his instructions abroad,
And all dignities and riches were concentrated in him.”
I Ching #30 the Li Hexagram
ReplyDeleteFrom time immemorial mankind has wanted to see or learn its fortune, and this form of divination is just another of those peerings into the future.
Just now I searched on the web and immediately got a site ready to tell me my destiny by the “uncannily accurate” ancient fortune telling sticks. And as they say on the site it gives just the right answer for those who know how to study and reveal its ancient wisdom. (But it won’t let me copy its lines to inform you perhaps because the site will eventually want money?)
O well, I think Jennifer is quite right in saying that because it looks so complex and is so ancient and Eastern, it must have some validity. It would be so valuable to Confucianism because the hexagrams are orderly and have a Confucian interpretation. An imprimatur so to speak.
Well, not that I've read much of either before but, I'm pretty sure we are supposed to be relating the 300 poems of Shi Jing [Book of Odes] to the Psalms. I read a few of both to have a fresh comparison. I think the translated Chinese sounds more like traditional poetry with the repetitions of lines and the general arrangements. And just like most/all religious text, it's too metaphorical for me. Beautiful poetry in the Shi Jing, just too deep for me to get a good grasp of the deeper meaning. That being said, I guess they are exactly like the Psalms?!
ReplyDeleteI may deserve a F grade for my comments on I Ching, the Yi King, but I don't get it. I may have whined about not understanding metaphorical writtings in my last paragraph but let me recant. I can understand Psalms an Shi Jing WAY better than I can I Ching. I could not grasp the concept of the hexagram and the 6 solid/broken lines. Sounded like palm reading to me. This line is long for family and this one is short for life expectancy. Maybe if I grasped it a little better, but I can't understand it let alone how Confucius would have been intrigued or drawn from it. Maybe that is why he wanted to study it for 50 years. I'm going to have to study it for longer than 50 minutes, that's for sure.
Like all poetry, some of Confucius’s touched me deeply and provided much beautiful imagery, some of it I didn’t understand – perhaps it was due to the translation and lack of understanding the meter – and there were a couple that truly spoke to me on a personal level. I did not see them in anyway as religious instruction, praise, or prayer such as what are found in Proverbs or Psalms.
ReplyDeleteThe I Ching stuck me merely as a fortune telling system like Tarot cards.
The Confucian poetry is very interesting and reflects biblical texts in several ways. It brings to light solutions to life problems through indirect routes much like the parables of Jesus. This form makes the reader think more about what is being said and creates a much longer lasting impression. However, it is different in a couple ways. The first thing I noticed was its relation to nature. Much of the works start out referring to a natural object or action, dealing little with a central religious figure.
ReplyDeleteSomething about the I-ching seems very direct to me. Something to me seems to be missing. It feels very choppy and perhaps a little too much to the point. There something about religious readings that make a person think about what they just read. I did not get that satisfaction from the I-Ching I felt as though there was nothing there to implant it in my mind. It would have been much more appealing if it had some sort of indirect language.
Frankly, I think this poetry is vastly different that that of the Bible. Psalms are in essence, song lyrics which are many times in prayer form (pleading, thanking, questioning,etc...) most of which are directed toward God in worship and conversation. In contrast, the Confucian poems are observation, appreciation, and queries regarding the natural world and apparently NOT directed at a deity. However, this is very much in context with the teachings of Confucius as they are generally peaceful and deeply philosophical; very conducive to meditation.
ReplyDelete